June 23, 2020
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“The game was better when it wasn’t all about speed and efficiency” is a sentiment I hear ALOT, let’s talk about it eh?

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Music used, In order:

Grizzly Hills Day music:
Shattrath music:
Outro – A small track from Winterspring, “Winterspring 5”
@27min

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#wowclassic #wow #warcraft #classicwow #gold

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30 COMMENTS

  1. autdelux Posted on June 22, 2020 at 11:16 pm

    so that is what ppl want if i sum up the comments:
    1. No Min Maxing and we all play whatever we want (ppl who play a good spec/class are asked to do only 50% of their clicks so bad classes dont feel bad)
    2. no conumes cause only min maxing ppl use them and i dont want to farm
    3. A good cleartime (man i have stuff to do irl) but no speedruns plz
    4. Nice and cozy rnd grps where i dont have to play tank instead of aoe shit where i can come with my melee hunter and have fuuuuuun cause wiping in a lvl 30 dungeon is so fuuuun and non min maxing)
    5. a nice guild where everyone is nice and friendly where we laugh and have fun all day in discord like 15y ago
    5.5. a nice guild where i dont have to be online all day and can do what i want. i just log in 2 times a week for raid and because of that i dont like world buffs but since we are such a nice guild im sure thats ok)
    6. Fair Lootcouncil
    7. if i do a 10% pharse i dont wanna educated how i could do better im ok that mage B is worth like 10 mages like me i have no problem with it its your competitive attitude dude that is the problem and now focus up we need to get that sub 4h bwl before aq40 get out
    8. i dont wanna enchant my stuff cause that would mean im min maxing so i skip all enchants so im sure im not triggering ppl in my raid that cant farm for enchants cause they have a job.
    9. always make sure to put some undercost ah stuff out there so other ppl can have a more vanilla like expirience. never sell at a profit so we can save the economy ourself #noprofit
    10. never pharse 99 or 100 to not offend other ppl in your raid
    11. dont use logs in the 1st place they are devils work used by maxxers and only make ppl hate me for not dispelling or doin 7% pharse
    12. no addons besids the addons i use (that list may varey but the important part is that other ppl plz dont use addons so my vanilla expirience dont get disdurbed)
    13. 37

    Reply
  2. bin usama Posted on June 22, 2020 at 11:16 pm

    Lmfao “retail has all this on top of collectables, collection logs, achievements, mounts, toys, trinkets…” what a joke. Wtf has gaming come to mate where this is considered replay-able content. the over saturation in retail makes all these things virtually worthless

    Reply
  3. Blind Dog Posted on June 22, 2020 at 11:16 pm

    I think people are sick of retail because of the dailies and PvP is no longer fun with so many classes and abilities. Classic is fun as a rogue because you dont have DH's that can see you and fly all over the field. I know a lot of people that won't pvp in Retail, but love it in Classic.

    Reply
  4. Questionable Object Posted on June 22, 2020 at 11:16 pm

    Whenever I try to really get into the numbers of a game and min-max stats and abilities I dins that I very quickly lose interest in the game, especially when doing so requires an immense amount of doing extra activities I don't have a whole lot of interest in.
    I hate grinding gold, I hate pvp.
    I love doing 5 man content and I love raiding.
    A number of BiS items are gained through PvP, getting all the materials to min-max in raiding requires grinding gold to afford the AH price gouging. It's a struggle of conflicting interests.

    Reply
  5. Zeeck420 Posted on June 22, 2020 at 11:16 pm

    not a single 60 yet, i never made it to end game till near the end of Wotlk :/

    Reply
  6. L H Posted on June 22, 2020 at 11:16 pm

    I remember having these discussions back when vanilla/ TBC were originally out. Also many heated discussions around the "pure dps vs hybrid classes" debate. Ultimately play the game how you enjoy it. You wanna min max then do it. You wanna be more casual then do it. Don't make the game a chore.

    Reply
  7. Anthony Yochum Posted on June 22, 2020 at 11:16 pm

    Good luck playing boomkin, non healing sham or pally, arms war, shadow priest, dot lock. Impossible to find a group even if you enjoy playing that spec. Ppl do so much damage nowadays you should be able to play what you want. Not what others tell you to play when you pay 15$ a month to play the game

    Reply
  8. Jellyfrosh Posted on June 22, 2020 at 11:16 pm

    You confuse min maxing with optimizing. Is wearing gear to make your class better min maxing? No. Is looking up the exact best set of gear for every spec and dungeon grinding for 12 hours to level min maxing? Yes.

    Reply
  9. MrBearMia Posted on June 22, 2020 at 11:16 pm

    8:16 . "certain people" : a shadow priest, an enhancement shaman, a feral druid… This mentality ruins the game for a lot of people out there, they're just forgotten or called names, or excluded. Yet, imagine wow with only holy priests, mages, and warriors.

    Reply
  10. Koukos Posted on June 22, 2020 at 11:16 pm

    Nothing wrong with MAXimizing your skill, but when there is no SOCIAL ELEMENT because everyone just wants to eat their IN N OUT burger alone, the game feels hollow. Thanks for making this. I leveled my warrior, made a couple awesome friends, had plans to raid and lead people, but quickly saw how much people would rather silently speedrun than enjoy each other's company. Damn shame.

    Reply
  11. Random guy with a baseball batte Posted on June 22, 2020 at 11:16 pm

    Min-maxers don't, elitists do.

    Reply
  12. Dragon 211 Posted on June 22, 2020 at 11:16 pm

    min maxing all the time is mentally draining. I'd rather be in a nice chill guild that eventually clears the content instead of after the first week.

    Reply
  13. Alex Tygesen Posted on June 22, 2020 at 11:16 pm

    This comment section is so polarized, holy shit. First off, aiming for a high parse is not something that a min-max addict would do. When I play football with the lads, I don't just stand around half the game looking like an idiot. My goal is naturally to win the game against the opposing team, but giving it my all so that the other players say "damn he's good" is a great feeling. Seeing yourself improve at your class is also a really cool thing, and being able to see what other people do to reach a high result is a great tool too. Nobody is aiming for 95+ parses, but if you're content with parsing at 30 or below then you're actually just making the raid longer for your team. Nobody wants that guy who doesn't give a shit on the football team. His own sense of superiority that allows him to just slack off without caring is toxic for everyone involved.

    Secondly, just getting BiS items can hardly be considered min-maxing. They are goals, and goals are not min-max strategies. If I'm min-maxing just because I managed to roll a 98 on Onslaught Girdle then fuck me I guess. Getting rank 13 gear for PvE is still stupid though.

    Reply
  14. seventhsinn Posted on June 22, 2020 at 11:16 pm

    bro it took me like 2 months plus to hit 60 on my druid I gave no fucks now im in the top guild on the server they want you to donate all this shit and im like fuck that I just take loots,i got world dragon weapon for my druid full tier 2 ect and I gave them nothing but heals I did all that shit in vanilla not about to do it again im gonna enjoy my time.

    Reply
  15. Gian Mercado Posted on June 22, 2020 at 11:16 pm

    Wether it's a good or not, I don't care. It is, however, like drug junkie behaviour adopted for your bedroom. Been adddicted to many things including gaming. It is very sad and there's always an explanation for why "I play 12 hours for this and that bullshit". People who leveled to 60 in a week are junkies, period. You ard in pain, trying to escape reality like every other addict.

    Reply
  16. Sander Fitzwilliam Posted on June 22, 2020 at 11:16 pm

    The thing is that if you think 95% of a game is useless because the other 5% is just more effective, you end up with a hollow and empty experience. To those people i always say : Isnt it just more effective to not play the game at all and make some real world money instead? Because for me thats what a game is, a place where you dont have to be efficient, but can just have fun.

    Reply
  17. j3s0n Posted on June 22, 2020 at 11:16 pm

    I'm playing runescape right now. I've been clicking the same pixel for the last 4 hours getting my thieving level up

    Reply
  18. inkredibill Posted on June 22, 2020 at 11:16 pm

    I just got off a video of yours where you called yourself a min-maxer, and now in this video you say you're not a min-maxer.

    Reply
  19. Trevor Muse Posted on June 22, 2020 at 11:16 pm

    As for everything, not just this game, “you’re fine doing what you like/love until you shove these beliefs onto others.”

    I like to play with someone, so I’ve been playing with a friend who never played classic back then (joined in at cata) We both like to make one of every class (I like creating characters) and just decide what group to run around as that day. Heck, sometimes we don’t even gain a lvl in our play sessions. We ran the night elf death race to ironforge even! I think my highest is in the 30’s. Lol

    I am a tad sad when someone asks what a good prof for insert class here, and you just see a bunch of replies about what makes the most money though. However, that is something to think about in the long term.. I replied to one with go alchemist cuz all the buffs shall be yours! XD

    Reply
  20. Trance Bodega Posted on June 22, 2020 at 11:16 pm

    If you think the game should be enjoyable to players of any play style, then the culture of "get good/l2p" should not exist. Those kinds of people can only be "good" in relation to someone else being deemed "bad." It's inherently toxic, because the need by some to be "the best" steers the whole ship in the direction they want. It's an issue that starts at a cultural level; whatever ultimately happens to the games content is a symptom. The fact is, most people don't enjoy themselves around the type of personality that seeks optimization. It's true anywhere: at work, at home, in public. It feels creepy and robotic to most of us and if this game cant be an escape from that, don't expect people to stick around.

    Reply
  21. Trance Bodega Posted on June 22, 2020 at 11:16 pm

    save you ten minutes: Yes. Always.

    Reply
  22. Miles Rout Posted on June 22, 2020 at 11:16 pm

    The only people the min/maxers are ruining the game for are themselves. I'm enjoying myself fine as it is not rushing

    Reply
  23. Black March Posted on June 22, 2020 at 11:16 pm

    We need to get away from multiplicative DPS systems, what drives min maxing is the prevalence of multiplicative damage systems. Instead of choosing which tools you want to use for which task, we have games which force us down the rabbit hole where we take one skill and multiply it's damage to the absolute max while ignoring all others.

    Reply
  24. Nick Armstrong Posted on June 22, 2020 at 11:16 pm

    the game was not built to be worked out to the extreme, it also from an era where the developers didnt expect the playerbase would work out everything to the complete optimum point. Therefore people rush to the top of the mountain and realise that the systems that modern day games have in order to keep the player engaged ( be it through difficult skills checks such as Mythic raiding or through repeatable content like M+ ) are not present in Classic, simply because in 2006 they weren't needed.

    There also another problem in that if you just want to play the game without min/max aspect of the game your called bad, and you no longer invited to grouped content. Therefore players that never wanted to read a guide or farm there BIS lists or pick a cookie cutter build., or as a caster simply spam one spell for the whole raid because its optimum are now forced to do so because of the stigma against non min maxers. personally i see this everyday online and in game with people declining you cause of your class, or shitting on classes that are sub optimal like ret paladins or boomkins.

    what are your guys thoughts on this?

    Reply
  25. SantaFire ` Posted on June 22, 2020 at 11:16 pm

    Taking it rather slow and meandering gave me the adventure I was looking for. But I also did min max a bit at 60 to gear up. People have a lot of preferences and what people see the best doing does lead to influence.
    The big take away from classic has to be that the adventure is based on game design. Having struggles and making grouping up and gearing up to overcome them, enjoying the peaks and valleys of power spikes through items and new abilities, all while seeing new locations is a lot of fun. If I didnt end up putting so much time into my main I would have leveled another character. For as endless as modern wow's content is classic held my interest longer.

    Reply
  26. 86Corvus Posted on June 22, 2020 at 11:16 pm

    its not unless you ignore the game ( but thats not minmaxing thats the problem, its speedrunning an mmorpg) or unless you are extremely picky at grouping because you want to overgear encounters because YE SHIT!

    Reply
  27. C N Posted on June 22, 2020 at 11:16 pm

    I stopped playing wow because of annoying people. Not everyone was like this but the few that where made the game unbearable. The ones who go around inspect each other guildies gear then trash talk them because they have a few items that do not meet there standard and they aren't even the GM. LIKE OH NO your missing 20 SP now it will take 1 sec longer to kill the boss how dare you! LOOK AT ME AND MY PARSES IM SOOOO GOOOD. They act like there competing for a 1 million cash price or somthing. Classic does not equal vanilla thats for sure. They suck in real life but they have 10+ hrs a day to invest into WoW and down talk players who dont get the luxury of living in mommas basement to work on gear and getting world buffs all day. Then trash talk those players who dont to feel better about them selves.

    Reply
  28. Chairman Meow Posted on June 22, 2020 at 11:16 pm

    People just care way too much about this shit for how old the game is. Unless you are in a speed run/super progression guild, wtf does it really matter if you're having fun?

    Reply
  29. elviade Posted on June 22, 2020 at 11:16 pm

    7:12, 8:15 The answer to the video. Good discussion

    Reply
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