Guilds Hitting a Wall in BWL and Gatekeeping in a 15 Year Old Game

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Blackwing Lair is posing more of a challenge than Molten Core ever did it seems. Progression is normal of course, but I feel it has spiked the talk of “gatekeeping” a bit.
Imagine gatekeeping in a 15 year old game.

Let’s have a chat.

Enjoy.
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Are Min-Maxers Ruining the Game?

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Music used, In order:

Darnassus Music:
Barrens Music:
Grizzly Hills Music:
Outro – A small track from Winterspring, “Winterspring 5”
@27min
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Twitch

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Tips

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#wowclassic #wow #warcraft #classicwow #gold #goldgrind #bestgold

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48 COMMENTS

  1. evryone knows retail raids are harder but why is everything else trash? including having to do raids in LFR

  2. Joined a guild on alliance was the only Human caster. 98% gnomes. Cant tell you how much I dislike racial. They have always been lame. Certain factions having all the PVPers and so on. Racials that are a decade old being Nerfed because of MDI. Just remove them 😀

  3. I saw my first Boomkin in a scholomance run about a week ago.
    It was like seeing a unicorn, pretty amazing.

  4. I struggle doing all the min-maxy stuff solely because gold farming is the most agonizingly boring thing to me.
    A couple hours of grinding maraudon and I want to quit the game.

  5. Yeah try playing a boomkin, dear lord blizz screwed that class up, the Mana burn is ridiculous, the put the wrong talents and the wrong trees, it was like mentally challenged designer got that job. yeesh

  6. this is really about addons and being able to see every raid member's damage/healing/threat. being able to see exactly what abilities people use is incredibly useful when pinpointing someone to blame. i'm all for efficiency but at a certain point it can get pretty toxic.

  7. All this stuff actually made me play retail again cause most people don't give a fuck in retail and its pretty nice.

  8. My guild tried to make flasks mandatory for raid, as one of 3 tanks I said, no, unless you want to buy them for me cause I don’t have the time or interest in grinding gold to spend 500g on a flask a week.

  9. Cute. People think BWL is gatekeeping. I'm from OG EverQuest and was in the top world raid guild. Nothing in wow is gatekeeping. This was before gearscore, guides, zone maps, long term buffs, 40+ minute downtime per wipe.

  10. You know what really grinds my gears? Spending hours on gathering buffs just to be able to clear a content 15 mins earlier… The content gonna clear itself even if u play with ur feet!! So let ppl have fun, let them play w/e the hell they want, bring meme specs back! EVERYONE SHOULD MIND THEIR OWN BUSINESS and then the world (of warcraft) will be a better place for us all!

    Peace and out!

  11. The reason I like classic is cos I can just do some quests listen to a podcast or music and maybe farm a bit of gold. That's it for me and it's great.

  12. Personally, I'm the type that would play the game purely for the fun of it, and competing isn't really what I have fun doing. Even though I have several server firsts, that was more than 10 years ago, and I've gotten a lot older and it's just not as much fun to rush and push through harder content. I'm more interested in the lore and story aspect of the game than the theorycrafting these days and pushing progression content. It's all about what you enjoy. I would never take away from those who want to experience the game that way. But I also don't gripe at people who do poorly in dungeons or LFRs either. I just assume anyone who does poorly is either still learning their class, just learning the instance, or just learning the very game. But lots of people aren't like that. Guess it's a young vs old thing.

  13. Just play druid and then no one cares if you are min/maxed or not cuz they just assume you'll suck anyway lol. DRUID FOR LIFE!

  14. The gatekeeping has shoved me right out of Classic. If you got to Naxx in Vanilla and think that will mean anything to anyone in Classic, it won't, don't bother. You will be treated like a 2 year old baby noob, no matter how skilled. The only thing that impresses people in this game is if you play 24 hours a day, not even exaggerating. The amount of guilds with multiple ranks of Raider and all these gear prerequisites and one week you need world buffs, the next week you don't, oh wait you're on a loot ban randomly. One week you're good, the next week you need to start totem twisting. Like bro, what the fuck?? I had an officer use to the word "job" when I said I'm not totem twisting. Wrong move, you just showed your hand by saying "job". Find someone else who wants to play a WoW job, I'm not the one lmao.

  15. I like to play the game just to play the game I don't really care for the whole playing it wrong thing.

    You know I tried to play the game for enjoyment with doing dungeons and stuff but people just won't let me just enjoy it at my own pace and leave me alone about it I've quit the game a few times due to this.

  16. I've never done on a Raid on Classic and I never will. I play to enjoy the game not to deal with the stress of others and getting yelled at by an oversized man child. It took me way longer to level to 60 than most but I didn't follow someone's guide on how to level faster or skills/talents to use. I like to find my own way. I've been invited to join groups to get a quest done and then they tell me I'm using the wrong skill lol I'm always nice about it and say Please don't tell me how to play my game, just worry about your game. And I've been kicked by people for it lol. Play your game how you want to, don't let others try to control your game

  17. Well, I can only really give a personal example, as I suppose others may have experienced different things of course.

    3 cousins, 2 brothers and one of my friends all joined classic on day 1. All of us were going reasonably fast all things considered, and all but one of us hit lvl 60 in less than a month.

    Fast forward about 4 months and I was now the only person left, and it wasn't because my friends and family were 'bad' or unwilling to dedicate themselves to the game, but rather that so many people were getting pissy over every little thing being done if it didn't follow the meta game being laid out in front of us.

    This isn't just about people telling you how you should play the game, but rather that entire groups of people will decide to stay away from you for simply not wanting to pot all the time or show up for a world buff. Guilds are being run by 40+ year olds who all have been extremely unreasonable so far and simply are in it to relive some glory days they had back in the day. This crap is very widespread from my point of view, and I have hopped between 6 different raiding guilds in classic so far, and each one has DIED due to guild drama of this very subject.

    People getting sick of farming mats to be allowed to stick in the raid and not be benched only lasts so long. Funny thing is, 2 of my guild leaders so far have been outspoken about buying gold.. and expected the rest of us to be able to keep up to their level of "gold making".

    This is so much more than preferences colliding, but rather cultures completely consuming another. The gaming culture of 15~ years ago is long dead, and we now have one that is consumed by the desire to play the meta game as to not fall behind, than to actually make friends.

  18. If they brought BfA back 10 years from now… all the raids would be 1 shot right after coming out as well.
    It's not a matter of how hard something is. It's a matter of the content is already known and all the Class specs are figured out.
    Same deal for Cata or any other Xpack.
    New content takes longer to beat because it's new. The only other thing that slows things down is gear checks.

  19. The problem I've always had with MMO's is the "gatekeeping".
    It's why I don't really join Guilds and end up creating my own just to escape "join guild!" spam.
    I do not like feeling like I'm doing a second job that I'm paying someone else to do, rather than having them pay me to do it. I have a real job. It is very demanding. It is more rewarding than any video game I've ever played (real life prestige and real life money beat any digital equivalent). I have no desire to put forth that same effort I do in real life into a freakin' video game. Especially when the video game won't pay me for that effort.
    So, I play "casually". I play when I feel like it. I do tasks only if I feel like it. If I'm doing something that's a "group effort", I just ask if anyone wants to come along. I joined my first ever guild in Final Fantasy XIV last year. It's a "casual guild" in which everyone just helps each other as necessary. They have weekly scheduled stuff like running Raids and such and have leaders who will teach the mechanics. There are absolutely zero obligations to being in the guild. The obligations are simple, "contribute when you can, where you can, and not out of a sense of duty, but because you feel like it".
    I was running a Boss Instance because I needed to do some atrociously grindy stuff for my "Relic Weapon", which has been obsolete for a while, but I wanted to be able to say I did it, and get the achievement, and the title, and use the weapon's skin, because it's glowy and pretty. I asked if anyone wanted to come along, and someone else on the same step as me with their own Relic Weapon said they'd come along. They asked if anyone wanted to join us for farming other drops where we were going, and we got 3 more takers. We spent like 3 hours grinding this boss for my Relic and for the drops. I didn't want the drops or need them, but I got them. My Relic step was done after about an hour and a half, but I stayed to help out everyone looking for their drops. Why? Because they needed them, and they'd been nice enough to come along and help me grind my Relic step.
    That's the kind of casual play I'm into. I'm out to do something, if anyone wants to help, come along, and I'll help you out too if you're coming along for something else in the content I'm doing.
    I don't want to hear, "no, you can't run a Raid with us, 'cause you never offer to run Raids with other people when they're asked, and you can't be relied on!". I don't want to hear, "no, you're not geared for Raiding, so you can't come!" I don't want to hear, "Git Good!".
    I just want to play all the content once, get the achievements if they exist, and get things that I perceive as valuable. You may not value something I'm chasing, but that's fine. I value it 'cause I may like the look of it or something. Or, maybe, I would consider getting it a personal accomplishment even if it's a worthless waste.
    I'm playing an MMO to have fun. To immerse myself in the world and the mechanics, and to customize my character any way I see fit. I'm not playing one to add to someone else's fun. Or to be one of two "viable" builds of any class I choose to play. If I want to be an unoptimized mess that focuses solely on pet damage to the detriment of every other stat… LET ME BE THAT WAY. Being "uber DPS" is boring to me. Any asshat can do it, and nearly everyone does. I want to make my character play a way in which I don't feel like a robot and in which I can feel like I'm having actual fun.

  20. I’m glad I was able to play as a elemental shaman in OG vanilla molten core (even some enhancement in BWL back in the day!)

  21. On a side note.. dark souls isn't a hard game.. and if people are complaining about their progress.. they should stfu when people tell them where they're fucking up..

  22. Let’s stop playing around. Classic is much more casual friendly than retail. Put a pure retail player in classic. Easy. Boring maybe. But easy. Put a classic player into retail. Overwhelming and difficult.

  23. My raid runs with my guild is usually 2 protection paladins, 1 feral tank, 2 tank warriors, 10 dwarf retribution paladins, 2 shadow priests and 2 billion hunters so I don't get gatekeeping

  24. I AoE lvl'd my mage for the most part all the way to 60, as many did. That said, I joined a group for a maraudon run during the process, only to be shit talked for a few mins for not having the flight path yet by one of the members(a warrior who wasn't even at the dungeon himself btw). He told me I must have zero knowledge of the game, said I was shit for not having the fp by lvl 46, and even after leaving the group for obvious reasons he proceeded to whisper me calling me a kid, and telling me to "go back to retail casual". Honestly I feel like the dude was just mad he had to "hard" lvl a warrior, and couldn't just AoE mobs. The amount of "gatekeeping", and toxicity in classic is so real lol. Can only hope TBC will be different, but it seems this is just the nature of your 2020 gamers tbh.

  25. WoW has never been a hard game, and certainly wasn't hard in vanilla. Anyone saying it's a more hardcore game is a complete idiot. The entire point of classic is that it's a very casual game designed for the casual play experience. The parts of the game that casual players experience: questing, exploring the world, the odd dungeon, etc. are the strongest parts of the design.

    Modern WoW is not about levelling, experiencing the world or doing quests. It's about raids, raids, raids and raids and nothing but raids. It's the opposite of casual. They tried to make it more 'casual-friendly' by adding LFR and multiple raid difficulties but missed that the reason WoW was casual friendly was that 99% of the content in the game was designed around 99% of the players.

  26. This fucking game has been out for 15 years now, all the fucking info is just one click away, if you are to lazy to fucking do bare minimum to understand your class and better yourself in game ….. then sorry but fuck you you deserve to be gate kept or whatever that bs term is being thrown around here. So instead of bitching about min maxers and making excuses for playing the game on sub par noob level go learn about proper way to do it, all the fucking info is easily accessible and super easy to do.

  27. Having bitched, pissed and moaned at Blizzard for at least three years to bring back Vanilla, I'm now not in any way inclined to do it more, just because Classic has certain issues which I knew in advance it would have. I am soaking up that Vanillary goodness on multiple toons and am waiting happily for TBC to arrive, having rolled two troll toons with the names I'm going to put on my belf Blood Knight and mage, just to make sure no other bugger gets them first.

    I have been subscribed to WoW for the past year, thanks entirely to Classic. Without it, I wouldn't be. The only reason I ever go into retail is to keep my bag-selling sidelines going, so they can fund my token habit.

    #classicputmyassinthisseat

  28. I just hate that I can’t have fun when I get to 60. I’m playing an undead warrior, and I love the look and I love two handed arms. Apparently it’s not “viable” and I’m gonna be “useless” because I’m not gonna he duel wield orc fury warrior. Dude, I get that it’s 15 years old but why won’t I be able to enjoy myself? People when vanilla first came out didn’t know these things and still got shit done. I almost don’t even want to finish leveling if I’ll not be able to enjoy it.

  29. I'm not a classic player (sue me I prefer my 120s) my way of playing is get to max level, get the best gear i can then spend my free time role playing with my fun mogs. I'd even be building a house if blizzard was competent enough to make a system for that. I genuinely hate "speed runners" and feel that mythics have ruined wow as a whole because even in wailing caverns you get the "no talk, kill only whats' needed OMG you're too slow *votekicked*".

  30. I was in a guild playing as a Ret Paladin (I know, I get people telling me to kill myself every day) which is progressing through BWL. Every week they clear BWL. Every week we clear MC in one evening and every week we take down Rag well before submerge. I NEVER find myself at the bottom of the DPS. I work hard to find myself in the mid tier and even though I won't be at the top of the list I have found ways to stay relevant and dish out damage.

    Then suddenly my Class leader tells me that despite all this. I won't be allowed into the raids anymore as Ret and that I should either respecc or level up and gear up an alt.

    I understand that there's a stigma against Ret Paladin (again. I get people almost sending me death threats levels of abuse in chat for daring to play ret) but I've found that with hard work, you can get by. I'm in a new guild now, sitting comfortably in the mid tier dps.

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